Hey..
(This is in response to the first three comments on my previous blog "the knights templars of today".)
There is no disputing to the questions that you have raised in your comments. And for the record, Iam not one of those pseudo securalist ilk, like the Congress and the Janata Dals, who talk abstractly on restraint & religious tolerance etc.,. On the contrary I believe in all religiousness and fundamental faith. Iam a staunch Hindu and I dont believe in sitting around doing nothing when the religion is being abused.
But this is not about me or you.. This is not vague secularism I am talking about. This is fanaticism. You dont handle retards by becoming a retard yourself. Yes.. respect to sensitivity cannot be one way. That doesnt mean one can keep breaking Taj Mahals and Red Forts for a temple which doesnt' exist today. Construct new ones, promote the religion, support the believers. Fight for the Kanchi mutt chief and prove his innocence. Dont become a Ghazni yourself and plunder someone elses faith.
What is hurting today is that, when our Hindus are suffering with Tsunami tragedies, Bhuj earthquakes, the Northeast corridor folks with no money, no food, no education, no security whatsoever and we are still bothered about some piece of land. Gather the Hindus, form a Sena and help these people. RESTORE THE FAITH.
And Eshwar, I take a very strong exception when you say that you dont need someone like me to lecture you on this. Our motherland has welcomed other religions - true.. But most of it is because the other religions did not give us a chance - they took us by FORCE- be it the Greeks, Moslems or the Christians. So lets be cogizant of the fact that we welcomed them because we were not strong enough to come togther to drive them out most of the time. And when you compare this with that of a landlord-tenant, do you mean we sit and trace back history to check and drive out all Aryans out of the South ? Or does it mean that you support reservation policies because few hundred years back our brahmnical ancestors inflicted a castiest-bias towards our other ancestors ? But I dont want to start a historical debate here. That doesnt serve any purpose now, for good or bad, we are what we are today.
People die of hunger even today in India. The Congress hasnt done any magic to solve these issues. Most of us, including me were excited when the BJP came to power for they seemed to have the energy & fire to lead us. We still believe that BJP is a party that has got potential and sense and are the right people of this lot to lead the nation. So when a leader with that party starts a gimmick such as this, it is not very encouraging.
(And guys, please comment in my india shopping blog.... I really need some help there. We can sit and discuss this topic after Iam back).
Chao...
(This is in response to the first three comments on my previous blog "the knights templars of today".)
There is no disputing to the questions that you have raised in your comments. And for the record, Iam not one of those pseudo securalist ilk, like the Congress and the Janata Dals, who talk abstractly on restraint & religious tolerance etc.,. On the contrary I believe in all religiousness and fundamental faith. Iam a staunch Hindu and I dont believe in sitting around doing nothing when the religion is being abused.
But this is not about me or you.. This is not vague secularism I am talking about. This is fanaticism. You dont handle retards by becoming a retard yourself. Yes.. respect to sensitivity cannot be one way. That doesnt mean one can keep breaking Taj Mahals and Red Forts for a temple which doesnt' exist today. Construct new ones, promote the religion, support the believers. Fight for the Kanchi mutt chief and prove his innocence. Dont become a Ghazni yourself and plunder someone elses faith.
What is hurting today is that, when our Hindus are suffering with Tsunami tragedies, Bhuj earthquakes, the Northeast corridor folks with no money, no food, no education, no security whatsoever and we are still bothered about some piece of land. Gather the Hindus, form a Sena and help these people. RESTORE THE FAITH.
And Eshwar, I take a very strong exception when you say that you dont need someone like me to lecture you on this. Our motherland has welcomed other religions - true.. But most of it is because the other religions did not give us a chance - they took us by FORCE- be it the Greeks, Moslems or the Christians. So lets be cogizant of the fact that we welcomed them because we were not strong enough to come togther to drive them out most of the time. And when you compare this with that of a landlord-tenant, do you mean we sit and trace back history to check and drive out all Aryans out of the South ? Or does it mean that you support reservation policies because few hundred years back our brahmnical ancestors inflicted a castiest-bias towards our other ancestors ? But I dont want to start a historical debate here. That doesnt serve any purpose now, for good or bad, we are what we are today.
People die of hunger even today in India. The Congress hasnt done any magic to solve these issues. Most of us, including me were excited when the BJP came to power for they seemed to have the energy & fire to lead us. We still believe that BJP is a party that has got potential and sense and are the right people of this lot to lead the nation. So when a leader with that party starts a gimmick such as this, it is not very encouraging.
(And guys, please comment in my india shopping blog.... I really need some help there. We can sit and discuss this topic after Iam back).
Chao...
6 comments:
I have seen a lot of arguments put forth in a similar manner for totally different views being peddled.
People against democracy point to india's poor and needy and reason that we cant afford democracy with so much poverty. So we should do away with it, atleast for the time being.
The people against war and for peace (too idealistic) again point to india's poor and needy and reason that we cant afford the huge defence budgets. So we should drastically cut our defence budget.
There are yet other people who are against wastefull expenditure on sports (too much money) and instead want that money directed completely to india's needy and poor and so do away with sports, atleast in the near term.
And now this.
Shiva, for you this may be as simple as eye for an eye thingy. But believe me, its not.
This is a nation resurrecting its soul. This is a nation finally finding its feet and looking back to thousands of years of continues civilization and feeling proud of it. And in this process when she finds certain incidents in history that have pained and hurt the soul of Indianness, she wriths in anger and pain as to how she could have allowed this to happen.
The first step in this healing process is to first identify such hot-spots in history and second accept that it did really happen and who were all responsible for it. Acceptance is the first step towards healing. All, I mean ALL have to accept their responsibility for any and every incident in history.
Once this is done, we can then talk about forgiveness and leaving things as they are.
What you are asking for is to jump straight to the final step without going through it step by step. This is a recipe for disaster. This will leave residual anger and frustration at the injustice which will flare up sometime in future again. Anyways all this is happening because the previous governments of the first family's party have bungled on this repeatedly.
But most of it is because the other religions did not give us a chance - they took us by FORCE...
Let me put it simple. Noone can force a huge population as ours to succumb and accept. Its within indianness, to be accomodative. But thats being viewed as weakness. If what you say is right, then the moguls and british rulers should have rammed down their religious beliefs down our throats and our demography would not be what it is today. But the reality is that its not and so I rest by case.
It was not my endeavour to club you with the pseudo-secularists, but your blog did that for you !
Eshwar
There is a big difference between secularism as a concept and following religious tolerance. You talk of all accomodating other cultures & religions, a long standing tradition ... and the very fact that you now want to pull down the Taj or another monument just nullifies your hereditary tradition and respect for culture that you are so proud about.
Of course, owning and accepting need to be there - but owning and accepting can be only so much. Just because a 1000 year old potential ancestor of mine messed with untouchables doesnt mean that I take responsibility for it and accept my supression today. But if we start looking at every minute historical archive to find who is at fault who needs to own what, the battle will never end.
I cherish the heritage and tradition of my religion and culture and would not give it up even for fun's sake. But at the same time I will not start another useless endless bloodbath under the fake reason of protecting my religion's identity.
Siva:
I think that more than other religions taking us by force, it was more a case of us giving ourselves to them. One of the main reasons why there was such a rate of conversion during the early days was the inherent caste system within us. Most of the conversions to Sikh, Moslem, Buddhist, Christian and the transient Kabirpanthis were from the so-called untouchables and lower castes.
It was only rarely that a Ramanuja came about to treat all men as equal. Realizing the reason for people converting to Christianity, Mahaakavi Bharathi tried to create a revolution by putting Poo Nool on so-called lower caste people. Though he was termed a nut-case by the upper caste community for his actions, think his ideas may have been right.
One of the main problems we as Hindus have is the inherent caste system. By ignoring and completely belittling people of the lower castes, we have pushed them towards other religions that have welcomed them into their fold. As you read more and more about Sikh and Moslem converts from India, they have almost inevitably been from the lower caste looking for an improvement from their current desolate state. It is a different problem that in some cases they were still looked down upon by their co-religionists.
In fact along similar lines, christian proselytizing took hold in Punjab only when low-caste sikhs were allowed in only at special times and were not allowed to touch the karha prasad. And to think that one of the main tenets of Guru Nanak's teaching was that there should be no caste!
But, coming back to the core point of discussion, Hindus and Moslems always seem to have that special agnotism to each other. Even a Mahatma like Gandhi could not prevent the bloodshed that was partition. Even his pleading that India would be divided only over his dead body could not stop the carnage. I just do not know what else to say.
Coming back to the land-owner/renter issue, am reminded of the scene from Swades. As Mohan reaches the farm of the tenant from who Kaveriamma wanted to collect dues, he realizes the struggle the man and his family are undergoing. Though the land is theirs, there is an aspect of humanity that makes us Humans instead of being just animals.
Sorry Eshwar, though a stuanch religious hindu, I do not agree with your statement that Siva's blog reeks with pseudo secularism. I would rather put it that it smells of humanity!
Live and Let Live! Prahalada says that God lives in thoon and thurumbu. So, why not see our God in everything? Why do we want to try and create another Babri Masjid scenario, for which we are still trying to pick up the pieces. As Lord Krishna said, It is always easy to destroy something, but it is a lot more difficult to create! As Siva says rightly, lets use our energy for causes like the upliftment of humanity. Jai Hind!
Dear Raman....point well taken. What I find interesting is your call to hindus to surrender and lay down arms when the other faiths dont and are not even expected to !! Your call for unilateral disarmament is idealistic in a utopian world. This is not a utopian world. Be realistic.
We have been tolerant for too long and we will be, but with a touch of vigilance. We have to set our house in order, thats a given. But just because there is a tiff between a couple, it does not give right to an outsider to take advantage of it.
Btw, the example of the tenant-land lord is to illustrate land grab by an unscruplous tenant not a helpless tenant. The Swades rejoinder is totally misplaced.
Anyways, all your talk is all nice to hear in an academic white paper.
The majority of this country feels wronged. But something in them prevents them from acting violently and venting. Perhaps its hinduism, perhaps its tolerence, perhaps its respect for other religions. But at times even this silent majority says...enough is enough. Its like a pressure cooker waiting to explode. The pressure has to be safely released and the flame reduced.
Its a healing process. All this advice of focusing energy towards development is fine. But tomorrow when I browse through my countries history and come across history's injutice's perpetrated on my people I feel pained. Not just because it happened, but because we are still in a State of Denial. We just wont accept that mistakes have happened and the healing process has to start.
We have been magnanimous for five thousand years, its time they too showed some brotherly love. After all, these very people who are kicking at us were once our own.
India has the potential to become great. But for that to happen, India should be at peace with herself. That can happen only after the latent tensions are cleared and that has to start with the healing process.
Until then, any call for unilateral disarmament would surely put anyone in the pseudo-secularist ilk.
Gentleman...we are under seige more so from within than without.
Sidestepping the 'Tejo Mahal' issue, i would like to briefly state the following.
"So lets be cogizant of the fact that we welcomed them because we were not strong enough to come togther to drive them out most of the time."
Notwithstanding whether we had the ability to force people out, If we had, there would be 'some' people crying hoarse about 'senstivity' and 'retaliation' and 'eye for eye' and if you don't force people out 'we were not strong enough to drive them out' :-)
To me, LIFE is supreme than any religion, sensitivity or shrine.
No matter, one may be a victim or perpetrator of a violence - but one should never institutionalize nor condone taking away lives under *ANY* pretext.
Whether there was a human element or pseudo secular element to the original post only Siva can tell.
but am sure the intent of the original post was to ask for peace from *ALL* and ended up turning into the typical/regular outburst against a 'group' that constitutes 1% of a otherwise, supremely peaceful, accomodative and kind majority Indians
Peace everyone !
Let us park the alleged pseudo secularism to rest. For healing to begin somone has to start somewhere. It is not a question of bravery or who is more powerful. It is not just a question of a richer heritage, self-respect, nationalism or tradition. Someone has to start...
After all that we have been & seen through- broken lives and injured society, if we still work on finding fault-owners, if we want sinners & their future generations to accept the mistakes of their forefathers, if we keep digging graves of history, we will only fill those graves with ourselves .......
I wish to end this discussion here for now. Chao.....
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